The Daw Poll - Redux

Audio, MIDI and other software, not including effects or instruments
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What is your preferred DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)

Cubase SE
5
1%
Cubase SL
2
0%
Cubase SX
49
6%
Digital Performer
170
21%
GarageBand
11
1%
Intuem
2
0%
Live
113
14%
Logic Pro
346
42%
Logic Express
29
4%
Melodyne
1
0%
Metro
1
0%
Nuendo
17
2%
Numerology
5
1%
Pro Tools
27
3%
Pro Tools LE
26
3%
Tracktion
22
3%
 
Total votes: 826

cycles
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Post by cycles » 26 Oct 2004, 02:01

I have experience with logic, pro tools, nuendo, tracktion,
but I prefer Digital Performer to anything else.

Eh, cerberus ... " a DAW which sounds fresh, clear and pristine ".
I must confess, I had a good laugh.

"The faders are smoooooth sounding, as on a nice Neve or SSL ..."
Are you really sure, you ever had hands on a Neve or SSL fader ?

Steinberg should provide some action to remove all the bugs that come bundled with SX 3 or Nuendo on a Mac.
Usually that happens a year or two ... or never ... after release date.
Their DAWs are almost unusable in a professional environment.

Sorry for my rant, but I had a really very bad experience with Nuendo.

Storlon
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Post by Storlon » 26 Oct 2004, 04:20

michael wrote: I'm an ex fan of the concept of integrated plugs, I would love to use the DSP friendly EXS24mkII in Live 4, but I'm not about to go out and buy Logic Express just to have it.
Isn't the Exsp24 MKII an integrated Logic express instrument, i dont think it's an AU plugin anymore...

cerberus
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Post by cerberus » 26 Oct 2004, 05:08

cycles wrote:Are you really sure, you ever had hands on a Neve or SSL fader ?
Yes ! ... and I touched a trim pot as well !!!


cerberus
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"It's quite scary actually, they seem to have nailed it, haven't they?"

stew
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Post by stew » 27 Oct 2004, 12:24

I'm currently on Live 3, but planning for the Live 4 upgrade. Live does almost everything I need in a very streamlined (=no clutter) UI.

cerberus
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Post by cerberus » 27 Oct 2004, 21:02

Storlon wrote:
michael wrote: I'm an ex fan of the concept of integrated plugs, I would love to use the DSP friendly EXS24mkII in Live 4, but I'm not about to go out and buy Logic Express just to have it.
Isn't the Exsp24 MKII an integrated Logic express instrument, i dont think it's an AU plugin anymore...
A glacier flowing upward.


cerberus
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"It's quite scary actually, they seem to have nailed it, haven't they?"

Stormchild
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Post by Stormchild » 06 Nov 2004, 02:50

michael wrote:This is again where I don't quite think people understand, Apple bought Emagic because they like the product, and have left the Emagic staff pretty much alone about the GUI. Much better to use DP or SX if you don't like where Logic is right now, than to hope that Apple will "fix" Logic, from what I understand that's not how they're working with Emagic at all!
If you take a look at Logic 7 it's quite obvious that Apple stepped in on the user interface department. Unless you think it's pure coincidence that all of a sudden Logic looks just like Apple's other "pro" apps like Final Cut and Shake and so on.

Logic 7's UI is so significantly cleaned up and refined that I have no doubt in my mind that Apple had everything to do with it. I've been using Logic since version 4.7 and I'll definitely attest to the fact that Emagic makes extremely powerful, flexible software, but user interface is one area where they have almost no clue at all.

I'm sure the original Emagic staff are still responsible for the under-the-hood stuff that makes Logic so great, but I for one am extremely happy that Apple has taken over on the UI front.
MacBook Pro (15" unibody, late 2008), OS X 10.5.6, Logic 8.0.2, Reason 4.0.1

Stormchild
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Post by Stormchild » 06 Nov 2004, 02:59

michael wrote:Exactly, Logic is Emagic's baby, and Apple bought it because they like it the way it is.
I don't see any reason to make that assumption. I'm sure they bought it because they were impressed by the technology behind it but that doesn't in any way imply they were satisfied with the user interface. As a long time user of Apple products I can actually assure you that Apple must have hated the UI of Logic and I'm sure that was at the top of their list of things to fix.

When Apple bought Final Cut they most certainly didn't leave the user interface alone, due to "liking it the way it is". The next major version of FCP was radically different in layout and functionality and widely-hailed as "the first actually usable version of Final Cut".

As I said in a previous post, I've been a fan of Logic for years but I am extremely glad Apple has stepped in to start cleaning up its disaster of a UI.
MacBook Pro (15" unibody, late 2008), OS X 10.5.6, Logic 8.0.2, Reason 4.0.1

Solotasq
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Post by Solotasq » 13 Nov 2004, 08:06

WOOHOO, Logic whoops 'em all, despite all the whining about the new version!
Now, just to clarify ..... is this a popular vote, an electoral college vote, which battleground states were won over ..... ?
Seriously, after a bit of apprehension due to too many visits to the Apple discussion boards (along with a passing resentment of just having upgraded to Pro two weeks before 7 was released), I realized that Logic's all-inclusive music creation / audio production package was the most logical choice for myself, I am astounded with the new plug-in features and appreciative of how menu commands etc have been reorganized into more sensible heirarchies (ie: you can now bounce directly from the file menu, more presets are organized into sub-folders), no noticeable slowage on my G4 733 (a great relief), inclusion of Waveburner CD production software (yes I know it's not perfect yet, hang in there for Software Update) — OMFG, Logic now has the greatest overall potential for the DIY composer/producer who wants to bypass all the studio system/music industry BS and create something both real and realized. Okay, and I guess it'll be good for pros too .....
F#@* professionalism — just be good.

cerberus
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Post by cerberus » 13 Nov 2004, 13:56

I am surprised that Band In a Box isn't more popular.


cerberus
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"It's quite scary actually, they seem to have nailed it, haven't they?"

MarkH
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Post by MarkH » 18 Nov 2004, 14:52

stew wrote:I'm currently on Live 3, but planning for the Live 4 upgrade. Live does almost everything I need in a very streamlined (=no clutter) UI.
I was very gung-ho about Live as I really liked the simplistic 2-window interface and ease of use. But then I hit a few roadblocks.

1) There is no accurate display about your volume levels. I can't understand how Ableton could not put some sort of numbers (DB) as part of the faders. You have to guess.

2) No MUTE in the arrange view.

3) Adding Live/VST/AU plugins as inserts to tracks causes the track to have more delay than other tracks, thus causing phasing. For example try putting an EQ, Compressor, and Redux on a bass drum track and leave the hi-hat track as is. The timing is off.

4) Working in the Arrange view is still a bit awkward. When using Overdub in a looped section the midi will break apart into two seperate midi clips when you press Stop. Not a big deal, but a headache as you always have to "Consolidate" your midi clips when you are done recording. Ableton hasn't said if they will "fix" this because this is how they treat audio clips (intentionally).

5) No Altivec (or Hyperthreading for that matter) optimization and lack of dual CPU support (distributing audio to both processors) causes Live to use high amounts of CPU compared to every other DAW using the same exact plugins.

6) Live doesn't support drag-n-drop from Stylus RMX or Reaktor 4 (you can't drag an ensemble from the left side of Reaktor's browser to the Ensemble window, you must open a dialog box every time).

7) No built in sample editor (not a huge problem, but being mainly an audio based product you think it would have one).

8 ) No mono tracks.

9) No control surface support (ie. Mackie Control, HUI, Tascam FW-1884, etc). No MMC support so my FF and RWD buttons cannot be mapped to anything in Live (confirmed this with Ableton).

10) No Count-In

There are of course some great things about Live and I do think it is very usable, but the deeper I got into the program the more frustrated I was getting. I still use it for live performances as I think that is where it still accels the most.

Ataru
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Post by Ataru » 18 Dec 2004, 21:57

Live is great for live performance and that's it, imho; I try not to use too many plug in's with it either, I just hack up audio made elsewhere with live in mind.
Anthony Saunders: cd-r releases out now on Audiobot, Troniks, Alienation, and RSM. my homepage 1010011010

steve-o
Posts: 24
Joined: 13 Jul 2003, 15:00

Post by steve-o » 22 Dec 2004, 22:42

I ditched DP 3.X for live, and now am thinking of maing the switch back because of Live's really slow performance. Those L7 instruemts sure look tasty though...

cerberus
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Post by cerberus » 23 Dec 2004, 13:01

MarkH wrote:...1) There is no accurate display about your volume levels. I can't understand how Ableton could not put some sort of numbers (DB) as part of the faders. You have to guess.
...
Check the info bar.. The numbers should be there when you mouse over the faders.

...but you missed one ! Live does not do markers/memory locations. I guess you can drag anything back to the clip window, and then set up MIDI or QWERTY to trigger it without switching windows... This would be just like markers...kinda. Maybe I am not "into" Live enough, but that workaround seems kinda kludgy... then again there is an elegance to simplicity in design.. I am not sure in this case. What do you guys think ?


cerberus
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"It's quite scary actually, they seem to have nailed it, haven't they?"

Jeeve
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Post by Jeeve » 20 Jan 2005, 23:51

It's interesting how only a few of us are using Nuendo and/or Cubase SX (exact same app, the differences are a joke). This shows how much Steinberg totally destroyed their reputation with the Mac comunity during the last two years.

It's too bad, because many have absolutely no idea how powerful and intuitive this software has become, and it actually works well now.

Real time pitch shift and tempo/time stretch that really works is just one example out of hundreds.

Cheers,
Jeeve

cerberus
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Post by cerberus » 21 Jan 2005, 00:18

SX3 is selling very well now. It is up to Apple to get those users to switch to Mac now.

This site is very friendly to new Logic users, IMO more so than other Logic-centric sites. On the other hand, cubase.net's Mac forum is very friendly, and quite active. Nuendo has their own separate site...Also KVR remains the top site for VST users on any platform. So the Steinberg traffic is less concentrated here.

There are other social phenomena that I think also boost Logic's numbers here, such as posting here might satisfy one's need for belonging. Everyone knows that an important reason to buy Logic is to be in "the club". That was a selling point of Logic for me: I wanted to know I could seek support from other users; (I had no idea how much Logic users -need- osxaudio to cry on each other's shoulders) We are the top Logic site now. That is what this poll reflects. Looking further at the poll data, it is immediately obvious to me that there is a significant group of ProTools users who may or may not read threads like this, but certainly did not vote in this poll.


cerberus
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"It's quite scary actually, they seem to have nailed it, haven't they?"

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