Hurry up Logic (Apple)......

Discussion of Apple Logic Pro, MainStage, GarageBand and all related applications
sagarssd
Posts: 122
Joined: 09 Oct 2005, 04:00

Post by sagarssd » 23 Nov 2005, 12:24

putte wrote:.. and i just find myself in having no real oppinion at all anymore.
throughout all the frustration i reached the point that i try to live with what i have, and thats Logic 7. i reached the point to accept the crashes .. thats it.
i cant even participate in Logic threads anymore .. (at least way less then i used to).

topmodern? who said that? .. :D

putte
this is a transition phase...lets look at it that way. osx is still pretty new. os9 went through 9 major revisions and logic on os9 is very stable. and apple is realizing I HOPE that developing logic might be more involving than throwing on a few goodies and crossing your fingers. i just hope all the feedback gets apple to get their act together to deliver us some real updates. this is particulary stressful because i depend on logic for my living. maybe thats my problem...hmm.

putte
Posts: 2590
Joined: 11 Oct 2002, 07:25
Location: stuttgart, germany
Contact:

Post by putte » 23 Nov 2005, 12:29

sagarssd wrote:this is a transition phase...lets look at it that way.
.. i am very tired of hearing this. and i say this without blaming anyone but us all. transition now, and then again, and again .. its getting faster and faster, and just because we all want it to be faster and better .. etc.

its not right, and the fault of us all.

(all = topmodern western society).

putte

MiamiMusicMan
Posts: 109
Joined: 01 Mar 2003, 01:37
Location: Miami,FL
Contact:

Post by MiamiMusicMan » 23 Nov 2005, 14:13

Let me say it again.[SPAM].HURRY UP LOGIC!
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pac Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,bumping into people, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."

frugalpole
Posts: 1199
Joined: 30 Jun 2004, 11:43

Post by frugalpole » 23 Nov 2005, 14:41

sagarssd wrote:
this is a transition phase...lets look at it that way. osx is still pretty new. os9 went through 9 major revisions and logic on os9 is very stable. and apple is realizing I HOPE that developing logic might be more involving than throwing on a few goodies and crossing your fingers. i just hope all the feedback gets apple to get their act together to deliver us some real updates. this is particulary stressful because i depend on logic for my living. maybe thats my problem...hmm.
perhaps i am sensitive. but money doesn't just exist for me. the idea that this is a transition phase. hardware, applications, etc... is just plain offensive. again, perhaps i am too sensitive but ...
dropping 5k on:

an application
machine to run an application
periphs to make the machine run well
etc.

and the idea being that this is merely a transitional phase? WTF, that is just good-plain-old offensive.

i'm getting to a point where logic is what it is. i love to bounce. i love the plugs. but for me, any more than a final edit is tedious. i would love to do all things under one hood, but i just can't see that being logic currently.

it is entirely possible that logic is capable of doing every-little-thing i want it to do, but how it is implemented (and discussed) in the manual is completely unintuitive.

if they released logic 7.2 and it added a whole bunch of editing features (particularly in arrange, why do i need a new window, why can't i zoom in and edit in the arrange? and why can't i use any of my effects as a destructive edit...), fixes, and a simplified ui. that would be killer. logic's plugs sound great. no matter what app i work in, my stuff sounds best from logic (great plugs). but beyond that... i struggle.

anyhow i would love apple to fix her up. make neato. catch her up to what is going on. don't add more plugs, etc. add neccessary audio editing features, grid lockable automation, fixes on the few but NUTTY bugs...

...oh yeah, don't tell me this is a transition phase.it just might be. but please don't utter that out loud as defense. my empty wallet wants to kick your ass when you do that. :)
mbp :: metric halo uln-2 :: live6 :: komplete4
danlukas.com

oink
Forum Guru
Posts: 1116
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 23:33
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by oink » 23 Nov 2005, 15:38

frugalpole wrote:why do i need a new window, why can't i zoom in and edit in the arrange?
I could be proved wrong in the next minute, but I would not be surprised if that never changes.
Why ? Because that goes down to the basic paradigm Logic is based on. That is that audio regions in the Arrange window are just references to an original audio file, and not the audio file itself. It is a feature in Logic that one can do anything you like with audio regions without affecting the original audio file because you are only dealing with file references.
To bring audio editing functions into the sequencer window, would be inconsistent with that paradigm and, ultimately, cause more problems than it solves.

If you want to compare Pro Tools and Logic. PT is fundamentally a multi track Audio Editor with some sequencing features thrown in. Logic is basically a sequencer with Audio editing thrown in. As such both have developed along different paths.
(both try and include features you would find in a '2-track' editor, but neither do that completely.)
Even though both apps try and cover each other's ground, they are both limited by the fundamental principles their engines are based on.
(Just as an example: it took more than 10 years before Pro Tools implemented 'relative grid' in the Edit window, even though, for music composition, this is a fairly basic feature which Logic has always included. The only reason I can think of that it wasn't included in PT earlier, is that even though it seems simple, it was probably very hard to reconcile with the basic principles the app is built on.)


(btw, in PT if you want to go really deep into edition audio waveforms, like you can in Logic's Sample Edit, you have to open the audio in another app, What proves a benefit one one level, can often prove a restriction at another level. That applies to either app. Sometimes it is not possible to have things both ways.)

MiamiMusicMan
Posts: 109
Joined: 01 Mar 2003, 01:37
Location: Miami,FL
Contact:

Post by MiamiMusicMan » 23 Nov 2005, 17:39

Personally I'd like to see Melodyne style pitch correction and Ableton Style "Warp" functionality. DP and Cubase (Respectively) have these abilities so why shouldn't LP?

Also some kind of good Step Sequencer with a great GUI would be nice. Kind of like Reasons matrix seq on steroids.

Also the ability to hide tracks independent from each other in various windows would be nice. (Example, If I create a bunch of AUX tracks for the Outputs of STYLUS RMX or Battery 2 I would like the ability to hide them in the arrange window but not on the Mixer window. Prior to Logic 7 this was possible.

Also ULTRA BEAT ULTRA Suxs! Looks and sounds like Ass! More work is needed also to EXS24. And finally.....axe that old GUI that’s left on the "emagic blue" plugins. I love the look of the newer stuff like sculpture, also the older ones like EVOC20 good too. That’s the look I like.
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pac Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,bumping into people, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."

funkyappledog
Posts: 2623
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:52

Post by funkyappledog » 23 Nov 2005, 18:56

frugalpole just to reply...
,changing the time sig (plus zooming)for a moment is not really that bad just a way to give you more scope to lock onto that funky old grid if you need it ,then put it back . just one way Logic breathes ,to me this is part of editing.

Stay happy mate.

User avatar
LennieJ
Site Supporter
Posts: 1350
Joined: 18 Oct 2003, 10:37
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by LennieJ » 23 Nov 2005, 19:39

MiamiMusicMan wrote:Personally I'd like to see Melodyne style pitch correction and Ableton Style "Warp" functionality. DP and Cubase (Respectively) have these abilities so why shouldn't LP?

Also some kind of good Step Sequencer with a great GUI would be nice. Kind of like Reasons matrix seq on steroids.

Also the ability to hide tracks independent from each other in various windows would be nice. (Example, If I create a bunch of AUX tracks for the Outputs of STYLUS RMX or Battery 2 I would like the ability to hide them in the arrange window but not on the Mixer window. Prior to Logic 7 this was possible.

Also ULTRA BEAT ULTRA Suxs! Looks and sounds like Ass! More work is needed also to EXS24. And finally.....axe that old GUI that’s left on the "emagic blue" plugins. I love the look of the newer stuff like sculpture, also the older ones like EVOC20 good too. That’s the look I like.
All these things are very cool & implimenting them into Logic would negate the need for other applications.
But,,,at what expense. Youd need a Dual 8 ghz processor just to boot the thing up.
I'd be happy if they left Logic Pro as is, & came out with a LogicPro2fessional,a 3rd Logic app, all bells & whistles included for those with 8ghz dual macintels. :)
Besides, I paid good money for other applications as well, I like to use them.
MacPro 2x3 dual core 26GB ram, 30 terabytes eSata hard drive storage, MetricHalo audio interfaces,
BlueSky 5.1 monitoring & some quality outboard Mic Pres & signal processors.

frugalpole
Posts: 1199
Joined: 30 Jun 2004, 11:43

Post by frugalpole » 23 Nov 2005, 19:56

oink wrote:
frugalpole wrote:why do i need a new window, why can't i zoom in and edit in the arrange?
I could be proved wrong in the next minute, but I would not be surprised if that never changes.
Why ? Because that goes down to the basic paradigm Logic is based on. That is that audio regions in the Arrange window are just references to an original audio file, and not the audio file itself. It is a feature in Logic that one can do anything you like with audio regions without affecting the original audio file because you are only dealing with file references.
To bring audio editing functions into the sequencer window, would be inconsistent with that paradigm and, ultimately, cause more problems than it solves.

If you want to compare Pro Tools and Logic. PT is fundamentally a multi track Audio Editor with some sequencing features thrown in. Logic is basically a sequencer with Audio editing thrown in. As such both have developed along different paths.
(both try and include features you would find in a '2-track' editor, but neither do that completely.)
Even though both apps try and cover each other's ground, they are both limited by the fundamental principles their engines are based on.
(Just as an example: it took more than 10 years before Pro Tools implemented 'relative grid' in the Edit window, even though, for music composition, this is a fairly basic feature which Logic has always included. The only reason I can think of that it wasn't included in PT earlier, is that even though it seems simple, it was probably very hard to reconcile with the basic principles the app is built on.)


(btw, in PT if you want to go really deep into edition audio waveforms, like you can in Logic's Sample Edit, you have to open the audio in another app, What proves a benefit one one level, can often prove a restriction at another level. That applies to either app. Sometimes it is not possible to have things both ways.)
that helps me a ton to understand that. and it makes sense. and it calms my frustration. sort of. :)

is there anything written anywhere that explains the philosphies/points of logic? it might help me out a bit if i could understand that.

---
as for what i am editing in the arrange window... i am editing a file sort like an .als file in ableton. would that be a fair way to explain it?
mbp :: metric halo uln-2 :: live6 :: komplete4
danlukas.com

sagarssd
Posts: 122
Joined: 09 Oct 2005, 04:00

Post by sagarssd » 24 Nov 2005, 09:09

frugalpole wrote:
...oh yeah, don't tell me this is a transition phase.it just might be. but please don't utter that out loud as defense. my empty wallet wants to kick your ass when you do that. :)
dude, dont get me wrong. i am on your side believe me. ALL my posts in this and other forums deal with how badly apple has screwed up logic and how sad i am at current letdowns with the software companies like apple and native instruments. i've spent buttloads of cash on this stuff too. what i said was a feeble attempt at justifying my recent purchase of a 2.5 dual g5 and another logic. even if i cant run logic on it very practically, i'm sure i'll find uses for it as a sound engine. my extremely trusty powerbook logic 5.5plat is still the system i will turn to for my sequencing and tracking needs. anyways, please don't take offense for my remarks. thanks. :lol:

frugalpole
Posts: 1199
Joined: 30 Jun 2004, 11:43

Post by frugalpole » 24 Nov 2005, 16:57

sagarssd wrote:
frugalpole wrote:
...oh yeah, don't tell me this is a transition phase.it just might be. but please don't utter that out loud as defense. my empty wallet wants to kick your ass when you do that. :)
dude, dont get me wrong. i am on your side believe me. ALL my posts in this and other forums deal with how badly apple has screwed up logic and how sad i am at current letdowns with the software companies like apple and native instruments. i've spent buttloads of cash on this stuff too. what i said was a feeble attempt at justifying my recent purchase of a 2.5 dual g5 and another logic. even if i cant run logic on it very practically, i'm sure i'll find uses for it as a sound engine. my extremely trusty powerbook logic 5.5plat is still the system i will turn to for my sequencing and tracking needs. anyways, please don't take offense for my remarks. thanks. :lol:
i didn't mean that you offend me. just that idea that i hear everyone once in a while.

:)
mbp :: metric halo uln-2 :: live6 :: komplete4
danlukas.com

cesjr
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Mar 2003, 13:42

at least with apple there's going to be a new Logic UI

Post by cesjr » 25 Nov 2005, 10:48

[quote="putte"][quote="sagarssd"]this is a transition phase...lets look at it that way.[/quote]

.. i am very tired of hearing this. and i say this without blaming anyone but us all. transition now, and then again, and again .. its getting faster and faster, and just because we all want it to be faster and better .. etc.

its not right, and the fault of us all.

(all = topmodern western society).

putte[/quote]

Anyone who thinks the Logic folks themselves were going to pull this off is smoking crack. It's taking a long time because it's a very hard thing to do - keep all the power of Logic and bring the UI up to FCP, Aperture, etc. standards.

It's beyond obvious that Apple is doing something with Logic. The app is just too un-Apple like to remain in its current state. It's too hard to use. It's just not Apple. PERIOD For better or worse, something completely different UI-wise is coming. Maybe Soundtrack plus Logic, tailored for the purpose at hand.

Post Reply