Simple, yet confusing midi routing in Logic....

[Funkfish]

So here is why I'm trying to accomplish, basically, I have a hardware synth, a Virus Ti. the midi functions are hooked up via USB, but the audio is going into my computer through my firepod (doesn't matter much)

the virus has an option where, if you play an arpeggiated patch, it will out put the actual notes sounded by the arpeggiator, (ie, instead of 8 bars of just holding down C5 its 8 bars of arpegiated midi data)

so here is what needs to happen in Logic.

I need my midi controller (korg kontrol 49) to be routed to the Virus (thats the easy part) but the tough part is, I need to record the midi output of the virus. by default Logic is just recording whatever I play on my K49. and nothing that comes out of the virus. so how do I route the midi out of the virus (its hooked up via USB and showed up in Logic as Virus Midi) to the input of Logic??

thanks alot
Fish

[Funkfish]

Ok, so after some messing around in the enviornment I'm getting close.

here is what's happening.

on the clicks&ports layer, the physical input is sending the data from my kontrol 49 to the "recording & thru" and I have a midi track selected sending midi to the Virus, the midi out of the virus (which is sending the arpegiated data) is coming back in through the physical input, thus the physical input is suming the arp data, and the k49 data.

and the arp data is being fed back into the virus (which I don't want) and it is causing the arpegiator to not play correctly.

so this is what I need to do, I need to record the output of the viruses midi out, but not have it sent to the "recording & thru" because the recording and thru is sending midi from my K49 to the virus.

this is pretty funky so I'm confused,

if anyone has a clue I'd really appreciate some help

thanks alot

[clueblast]

in the arrangewindow create a "input notes" track (Cick & Ports: Input Notes) and record the arpeggiator´s output (and any controllers) on that. it has no output thus no midifeedback will happen. put the recorded part on the virus track (arpeggiator off)
and there you are. just make sure that nothing else is sending midi data as the input notes track (in its standard setting) will record everything whats physiacally coming in. in the click & ports part of the environmant you can of course put the input notes-cable to the physical input of the virus only.

[Funkfish]

Ok, I'm much closer, here is what I've done so far.

I've routed the Virus Section of the Physical Input to its own Input Notes, named Virus Arp Catch, which goes into a monitor object (just so i can see whats going on)

So when I play an arp, the Virus Arp Catch Input notes keyboard, danced around and I can see the incoming arpgiated data coming in.

now I just need to figure out how to record it.

If I make an input notes object in the arrange, and hit record thats just SENDING midi data to it, which is coming from the Sum input and being fed to the "recording & thru"

I think I just need to make my own recording & thru object, and just have the viruses arp data get there, but I have no idea how to do that.

thanks in advance for anyones help.

[clueblast]

my click & ports setting in the environment looks like this:
physical input—input notes—input view—sequenzer input
thats it, that way the input notes track in the arrange records without sending.
i think you´re missing the sequenzer input object at the end of the chain

good luck

[Funkfish]

click here for screenshot


so thats a picture of my Enviornment/Arrange Window.

Right now, the "Virus Arp Catch" keyboard thing, dances around when I play the arpegiator, but the Virus ARp Catch in the Arrange doesn't record anything.

Ironically enough though, if I play my K49 and have the Virus Arp Catch track selected to record, it records exactly what I played on the K49 (which shouldn't happen, cause I only have the Virus being routed to the Virus Arp Catch track.

so I have no idea.

[LennieJ]

Well if you are seeing midi data from the virus, you are getting close alright. Try cabling a new instrument object to the end of the 'viris arp catch"chain, select it in the arrange & record the midi on that.

[clueblast]

my click & ports setting in the environment looks like this:
physical input—input notes—input view—sequenzer input
thats it, that way the input notes track in the arrange records without sending.
i think you´re missing the sequenzer input object at the end of the chain

good luck

you seem to ignore my posts. i dunno why, but you´re just still missing the "sequenzer input"- object at the end of the chain. and that´s why you can´t record it, as it doesn´t arrive the sequenzer....

[Funkfish]

you seem to ignore my posts. i dunno why, but you´re just still missing the "sequenzer input"- object at the end of the chain. and that´s why you can´t record it, as it doesn´t arrive the sequenzer....

yeah, man I tried what you said even before you posted how to do it.

if I send the arp data to the sequencer input, it creates a midi loop with the virus and Logic and makes the arp not play at all. here is the signal flow if I connect it to the sequencer input.

it goes.....

K49>Logic(more specifically the Virus|Ti 1 external instrument is selected which sends the notes I play to the virus)>Virus>Virus Arp Output>Logic Physical Input>Virus Arp Catch Enviornment Object (every thing is fine in the flow so far but if you cable the Virus ArpCatch object to the sequencer input...) the flow continues as.

VirusArp Catch>SequencerInput>Virus|Ti 1 (thats the external instrument sending midi data to the Virus)

so as you can see, if I connect the Virus Arp Catch Env object to the Sequencer Input, it just feeds the arp data back to the virus making the virus not arp at all.

so that scenario doesn't work.
which puts me back to square one.

so I am still stumped.

[clueblast]

hm.
it works very well here with my virus b.
i do it all the time

so something should be wrong on your end.

in the click & ports enviro i only use the sum of the physical input set up as described above. (don´t think that this makes the difference though)
then i play the virus with it´s arpegiator ON and record what i play on a midi track.
thats what it should sound like.
then i switch the arp-send on in the virus and create a input notes track in the arrange. as long this track is active you can playback and everything is playing as expected, no feedbackloop stopping the virus.
then i record the virus arp-output on this track.
next i switch off the arp in virus and replace the first part (my own playing)
with the recorded arp-output on the virus-midi track
done

[oink]

so here is what needs to happen in Logic.

I need my midi controller (korg kontrol 49) to be routed to the Virus (thats the easy part) but the tough part is, I need to record the midi output of the virus.

Funkfish: I changed your image to a link. This thread was really hard to read on a regular 1280x768 monitor with the page spread that wide.

Anyway that environment setup is all wrong. Objects which come before the sequencer input shouldn't be used as track objects as well.

The signal path goes from the Physical Input, through whatever is cabled in-between to the Sequencer input.
The sequencer Input then passes the stream to whatever is selected as the track object.
In this case the selected track object is the keyboard object 'Virus Arp catch'. Can you see the problem there ?

Now for the solution:
Normallly if one wants to record the Arp output of a synth, while triggering it from Logic, one simply selects 'No Output' as the record track. But you want to record another input as-well.
So, to do this you'll need to follow the method described in the manual for 'Multiplayer recording' (page 122)

Do this:
Change the send channel on the Virus to Channel 2 (or, if you don't want to do that, insert a transformer which changes to channel to 2 after the Physical Input on the Virus TI Synth port and then on to the Sequencer Input.)
Everything else should be cabled normally to the Sequencer Input.
Create a new Instrument Object which is set to MIDI channel 2 and it's Out port to 'off'
Name it 'Virus Arp catch' or whatever.

Enable Song Settings > Recording > Auto Demix by Channel if Multitrack
Recording

Rec-enable both the track you want to record the Korg on and the track you want to record the arp on.
Hit 'record'.

That's all

BTW, most of the cabling you have on the Physical Input in that environment is unnecessary. If you wish to isolate an input, cable from it's port on the Physical Input object, but everything else, except what is cabled, simply comes out the 'sum' port.

[oink]

Of course, if you don't need to record the Korg input, then it is much simpler.

Insert a cable switcher after the Korg's In port on the Physical Input object. (make sure it's In Def is set to some message that the Korg doesn't send, like P-Press)

Have one outlet of the cable switcher going to the Sequencer Input and another going to a new instrument object which is assigned to the Virus TI Out Port.
When you want to record the Korg, switch to sequencer input. When you want the korg input to pass directly to the Virus TI, switch to the new instrument.(which, btw, is not included in the tracklist.)

Forget about multiplayer recording and just record the Virus TI arp to a No Output track..

[Funkfish]

Thanks Oink, I new I was doing somthing wrong, and I new the way my enviornment was set was incorrect I just didn't know what to do.

thanks alot.

[LennieJ]

I must have mis understood the original question. I still can not get Logic to see the midi output from a hardware device triggerred by another hardware device.
I always thought it was not possible simply cause the triggerred device isn't sending midi data,,, it's just being triggerred by another device. ??
So to recap. You want to trigger the Virus with the korg externally & record the midi out from the Virus into logic as it is being triggerred by the korg? Well I can't figure it. hehe

I would've just used the Virus as controller to record it"s midi output. But I am now totally confused.

[oink]

So to recap. You want to trigger the Virus with the korg externally & record the midi out from the Virus into logic as it is being triggerred by the korg?

The way I understood it was that the Virus was being triggered by the Korg thru Logic. Did i misread it ?